Comparisom Site For Dj Associations

Stubbled on this site...see what you make of it when you click the link for the like of SEDA or NADJ...wierd!

www.whichdjassociation.com

Fancy omitting the the fastest growing one....AMPdj.....and the specialist one....wedding DJ Association.

No wonder there's nothing to compare as it all appears to point to DJ@ who as far as I am aware only have about 150 members and offer little more than expensive PLI and a lot of hot air.

Hi Andy,
The other points are your own opinion, but its worth pointing out the DJ@ policy is still cheaper than MU and many others, so hardly expensive.

I thought AMPDJ was an Alliance and NOT an Association? There is a difference, and so technically AMPDJ should not be on the site anyway.

Good point about WDJA though - has anyone from WDJA contacted the admin?


Benny

Good to see you back "Benny".......totally surprised not to see you at the Seda shownight.

Oh come on...MU are massive and give very real support to its members with lots of clout if required. You don't join a big trade union such as MU just for PLI. i.e. I know a DJ that has recently had monies outstanding collected for him by the MU, it would have cost a fortune and he prob would never have got his money if it wasn't for them. I also know a session musician that had a very complex copyright issue resolved by MU solicitors.

Hi "Sandy" (?), I did go!
I saw Denon Gary, RSD, some strange lightbox (apparatenly not LED or lamp based!?), and a few other things.
Also heard DJ Barneys talk on SEO (kudos for doing it - just a bit over most peoples heads).

I couldn't stay long, and missed the start.

Benny

Not denying this at all :-) You brought up the subject of expensive PLI.

MU do a great job (also have friends in bands and also a few sound engineer buddies), its a shame the various associations don't work better together. I have considered joining in the past, a good example of collective strength.

Glad we agree on this! :-)

PLI should be a minor benefit (its obviously not too difficult to get a blanket policy from Hencilla) and attracting members on the strength of cheap PLI (pointed at DJ@ and AmpDJ equally), de-values any other advantages.

Unfortunately, in a business where we try to persuade clients to pay a higher price for our services, we are all guilty of trying to get essential insurance at rock-bottom prices.

WDJA in recent months have worked closely with both SEDA & NADJ. We are in conversation with them and have a good working relationship.


With AMPdj people are not just joining for the PLI....its the client enquiries too. In fact, we have affiliate members who join purely for the enquiries and not for PLI. We also see it as a step in the right direction making PLI available and affordable for all. The sad thing is that the AMPdj and DJ@ are virtually the same policy.....so why does DJ@ charge £75 and AMPdj charge £49.....DJ@ as a not for profit organisation, either have larger overheads or are making a healthy profit.

AMPdj is a young organisation. With numbers comes strength (and we're growing on a daily basis). We envisage developing it to be a major voice in the DJ industry....but this takes time. We already publish a newsletter aimed at helping DJs develop their business. This has proved to be very popular. We've had lots of positive feedback and even been approached to publish some in a magazine. Past newsletters can be read here www.mobiledj.info

I have to say that i joined AMPDJ purley for the PLI, i honestley do not needd anything else from the organisation. Anything else that i get is an added bonus. With PLI if there was any way of getting around not having it then i would, but being a legal requirement i have to have it. I've never heard of a DJ haveing a claim against his insurance, as long as you rig up correctley and know what you can and cant do with the gear then i cant see how any one would ever get injured.

I went with AMPDJ purley because it was the cheapest around! The fact that if i get any enquires will be an added bonus and hopefully mean that my PLI works out to be free

Well maybe this should be a good place to compare the various organisations around for DJs to join. I can certainly vouch for WDJA and AMPDJ as they are both excellent value for money for me.

WDJA for me does 2 things, firstly it provides me with work, last year I made over 100 times my membership fee and this year looks on track too. It also provides me with a trade association to impress my customers with, as far as I am aware WDJA is the only organisation about that actually has an acceptance policy that attempts to ensure that members are up to the job and I feel this goes a long way to relax prospective clients and help them to appreciat that they are dealing with a Wedding entertainment professional.

AMPDJ also does 2 main things for me, it provides me with PLI thus allowing me access to work in many upmarket and council run venues, as a WDJA member it is available to me for just £39. It also does provide me with some work, its only still fairly new but already some AMPDJ sites rank well on the net and I am getting enquiries and have so far converted 2 of them. I have been around a bit so the newsletters are only sometimes of use to me, however, I appreciate they are a massive use to newer and lesser experienced DJs.

I can't really make qualified comment on SEDA, NADJ, MU or DJ@ except for SEDA does appear to be a fabulous group to belong to with some very experienced members, NADJ did nothing for me in the years I was a member, MU appears to be good value because of its size and clout and DJ@ appears to be a bit of a rip-off to me.

That's all well and good, but they refused to even come to the table to represent DJs when it came to ProDub, so for that reason alone they got two fingers up from me - I did used to be a member and had no qualms about telling them why I wasn't renewing. FSB do debt factoring and legal support so that would be a better choice over MU if you don't want your money being used mainly for the bulk of their membership (i.e. singers and bands)

Well I don't really know enough about MU except a mate of mine...A DJ was over the moon as they did get a hotel to pay him what they owed. I wonder what might happen if a DJ had a dispute with a band and asked MU for backing, I get the impression they only allow DJs to join to bulk their numbers...Could be wrong though as I only know what other people have told me and I have picked up along the way.

Another advantage of FSB is the free business banking with Co Op.

Hi Andy,
I'll ignore the DJ@ comment - you are obviously involved closely with AMPDJ, and you admit you cannot make a qualified comment (but you try anyway ).
I'm glad to see Sandy was able to stick to the benifits of AMPDJ.

I'm not privvy to the financials of DJ@, I personally benefit from MixMash discount. I have used the MixMash "freebie" DVD's (2 x Summer Hits, and 1 x Visualisation) that have been provided, and also made use of the online validator (which I think pre-dates the AMPDJ by quite some time). So, personally, I'm happy, and have saved much more than the price difference.
I don't expect anyone close to AMPDJ to recommend a competitor nor would I expect MU/NADJ/DJ@.

The enqury sites are interesting, do they create a dutch auction where many AMPDJ members are quoting against each other - aka GoodParty?
I guess if members price each job at their normal rate, and get the gig- smiles all round.

The Terms of members ship should probably be tweaked;

I assume there will be a notice period for this? Its normal to allow at least 7 days to allow the member time to arrange a new PLI policy.
It would be good if any notice period could be clarified in light of the above policy.

I'd also add a clause that if a member cancels before 7 days, a refund will only apply if a claim is not made - no sense in a claim payout for a member who contributed nothing financially.
Cancelling insurance is standard in many policies (car/home etc), but they will specify a notice period.


I have heard mixed things about the WDJA, sour grapes from those not able to join, and also many people who have benefited.
Its a very good concept IMO. The main critism I'm read is regarding the qualification process, but I have not applied.
As it appears to be an area driven system, I guess the success varies by area, and the DJ's quoting.

I think WDJA is in its 2nd year, so if it was not bringing in quality enquires, I would assume membership would have fallen sharply - so I'm glad to see it's still running strong.
I may apply to join early next year.


I think FSB also offer a discount for Streamline credit card processing. Depending on the size and type of operation this may also be a good reason to join them.
I couldn't recommend factoring invoices to anyone :-( I've seen too many problems with this.
If you run the DJ side as a real business, then FSB looks very good.
Many DJ forums do not actively discuss business issues (I guess many DJ's are not interested or even keep their earnings under the radar of the tax man)
The FSB has its own forums, and these are a great resource.

Benny

I agree that Mix Mash is one of the benefits for members of DJ@.....but am I right Mix Mash are DVD/video ....if you aren't into video djing, basically they are of no use what so ever.

As for the PLI validator....not sure what your point is. Of course DJ@ validator has been around longer than the AMPdj one.....AMPdj was only lauched 6 months ago....and, as a matter of interest, already has more signed up members in 6 months than DJ@ has achieved in 18 months....so surely that tells you something. If not, the reason is simples - it's a fantastic deal for Mobile DJs.

have to say that i was alittle gutted to find out that i could have got my PLI for only £39, i paid £49 for it

ahhh....but then you wouldn't get the enquiries for your area from the AMPdj sites.

i paid extra to get those grrrr lol

No....you didn't pay extra.....you paid our standard fee of £49. You sound like you're a tad confused....give us a call and i'll explain it.

sorry, my Bad. I was thinking of WDJA where i had to pay more ... oooopppss!

Damian;

Probably best to post back;


Sounds a good deal to me, WDJA members getting PLI for £39!

Let everyone know the deal you got,and if its retropestive.

Benny

i meant adding extra services cost me more with WDJA,

OK…Quiz time; just for fun though

Which DJ Organisation has this motto…

“Protecting & Promoting the Art of DJ'ing”

And who has this on their site…

“Delivered, set-up and collected at the end of the night, contact us to provide sound systems and disco lighting for your DIY ipod event! Public Liability
Included.”

I don’t think I have laughed so much in ages

Aha....am I right in thinking its the same person who has written both?

You just want to win the first prize of a dirty week-end away with me

Sorry Andy- I was expecting something witty!

Not sure I get you?

The “Protecting & Promoting the Art of DJ'ing” is the motto of DJ Associates. All good there. I am a member as you will have seen from my site.

The 2nd quote is off a DJ's site, how they run their business is down to them. I know the relationship, but not really sure why this is funny?
Many members of SEDA/NADJ offer dry hire as an option, so little difference as far as I can see.

I've already stated that I have considered dry-hiring kit to cater for iPod parties.

DJ Associates was launched and run by one person, the very same person that hires out equipment for i-pod DIY functions. Encouraging people to do DIY i-pod functions is not protecting the art of DJing!!!!! How can someone starting an association to protect the art of DJing and in the next breath, for his own gain, encourage people not to use a DJ but an i-pod for which he would happily provide the equipment and PLI? There's some irony here!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Jason, it wasn't in any way aimed at you, there is a bit of history that makes it even more ironic.

I know there is you and Damien and lots more DJs that hire for IPod Weddings and I did actually consider it myself, there's nothing wrong with that but to make a statement like that and then to contridict it is wierd in my book. I don't see how one can protect and promote pro DJing and then hire kit to punters that basically means that somewhere along the line a DJ looses out on a potential booking. If there weren't places that folk could hire the kit then there would be no such things as IPod Weddings. Having said that my local DJ shop has been hiring full systems out for 27 years that I know about.

When I get a client that is like that I try to explain the values of having a pro DJ attending their event and often I convert them and if not I let them go elsewhere.

In hindsight maybe I shouldn't have said anything as I never intended to offend anyone such as yourself.

Thanks Andy,
I was just a bit confused, this appears to be a small forum and I was hoping it wouldn't have the politics/back stabbing of the others.

I am friends with Dan, and also a member of DJU Forum and DJ Associates.
I will not be point scoring against AMPdj or WDJA in this or any other forums - basically we're all above this.

In fact, I did help Paul out with some minor coding on the WDJA website prior to launch.

Otherwise - I enjoy this forum :-)

Yes....you're right Jason. Apologies from me too.

Thanks Sandy! :-)

Hope you both have a good Sunday, about to drop my Kids back to Colchester (from here in Waltham Cross).
Horrible raining, and a lounge full of gear to finish PAT testing and tidy when I get back.

Jason

Fair enough; I put me hands up it was a bit of devilment. And, you are right I moved off a couple of other forums because of it so guess I should practice what I preach.

I think most people who want to hire their own kit weren't interested in a DJ in the first place, be that due to cost, wanting full control, not a dancing affair and more of a background music job... whatever their reason. It's far easier to buy more kit than find more reliable DJs to cover the work, so the dry hire option makes perfect sense from a business point of view. I don't see it as a threat personally.

I don't care if the client wants background music or thinks they know better than me what music will be better on the night as far as I'm concerned i pod parties are the death of the industry and any DJ who dry hires for an i pod party is just in the business for the money and has no love for the job
I detest the idea of ipod parties and don't think any DJ should encourage them in any way or form

Rant over and sorry if i caused offense


I joined ampdj primarily for the PLI but i did look around and found the alternatives are very southern orientated down to meet ups, conferences etc and as i live in Scotland no good for me so really it came down to price

No offense here - we all have opinions, and I understand- and I think we all agree with the arguments for iPOD (or any automated system!) being pretty rubbish.

I would see the iPod party to be ok for lower-end gigs. What would you do if somone wanted music for their birthday and had a budget of £100 and asked if you can provide gear that they can run from their iPOD? Leave them to the mercy of the a budget DJ, or provide a sound system that they can use?

I don't know how much these things would hire for, but if you can get a client on the phone, then its possible to upsell - perhaps its possible to increase their budget and leave the night to a professional, in this case the iPod dry-hire is a useful lead generator.

I actually see it as a good thing. The "60quid sids" now have competition in the forum of an iPOD mixer.
Perhaps they'll either drop their prices to £40quid sid, or try to raise their game.

The serious DJ's should be able to compete on the fact that they are not simply going to play a list of music.
I take playlists, but never in strict order, and ensure I can add/remove to fit the mood.

I picked up a very good wedding were they wanted to use an iPOD as they didn't see the value in a DJ as they already had a band.
A quick 10min call, secured the booking - the band used my PA for vocals, I provided uplighting, dancefloor lighting, about 3hrs of DJing, and did some basic MC duties.

As with most things, its using the right service. iPOD for background music is perfectly fine. Couples have been using CDs/Tapes for years for Christenings/Daytime gatherings.
For a Wedding, where someone needs to take into account the wishes of the client, the mood and the wishes of the guests - an iPOD would really not work well.

For most parties;
If they didn't want a DJ, I would have been happy to hire my lighting+PA or parts thereof..
I would hope we are also DJing as a business, and if after trying to promote the virtues of using an experienced DJ, the client still wants to use an iPOD, I'd rather I get the business than a local hire store.

I suspect this is a business decision, and if done right could lead to conversions into proper gigs.


Jason

Got to disagree with you here Jason. You're assuming that all £60 sids are actually only worth £60....although I've met some that are worth 5 times more than they charge, they just don't want to. They don't rely on the income and do it mainly for the love of it....that doesn't make them lesser spotted DJs though. I admit, there are some £60 Sids that really ought to be driven out of town....but not all.

So bearing that in mind, I still don't see offering i-pods for hire as a good thing, although I do get your point about lead generators, but I'm sure those cases would be few and far between. At the end of the day, every i-pod function has replaced a DJ, whether its a budget one or high end one.

Sorry Sandy - I wasn't trying to get into a battle of low priced DJ's. As we all know, the costs of running a legal, good quality business means that charging £60 would mean a very low income.
If DJ's are willing to work for £60 (and pay NI+TAX and have legal music), then 100% fair dues. After fuel+music, then taking off 20-30% tax, the'll probably have £40 in their back pocket (assuming they have not needed to buy any drinks).
If they are under the radar in any form (tax evasion/copied music) - I sincerely hope they are caught.
That is my only problem with them- DJ's running as a hobby is fine, but they have to play fair.


Re: "iPod" I do agree its not a good thing - but with hire companies offering this, its an obvious way to generate income from gigs you would not normally be able to cover for the price.

The same idea applies to DJ's that offer Dry Hire on PA+Lighting, not just iPod.

My 2nd rig will run off an iPod (playback and mixer) but doesn't have a native iPod connection. Would it be considered bad to Dry Hire that gear?
What is the difference?

On a pure business level, I would hire my 2nd rig if they wanted something like this, but could not afford my rates.
In reality, I would probably offer to set-up/packup for an additional fee, and then follow up with a new offer of DJing for only £xx extra. This would be mainly for kids parties/small family parties that are local.

I know Andy offers LED DanceFloor+Uplighting - I'm really not picking on Andy, but surely this is undercutting the lighting/event companies in much the similar way?
From a business perspective, some of us wish to diversify, and that normally means stepping on other businesses.
If other DJ's can't compete with an iPod, then its not something I would worry about. The "good" low cost DJ's will continue to keep their good reputation with repeat bookings, and the bad ones will only compete on price.

I'm still unsure if I want to offer dry hire on my new website, but the "ipod" think would feature if I did.
I would not list prices, and would much prefer to do the gig if possible, but would not turn away those on a low budget who called asking for this service.

Probably best to disagree on most of this - I can see both sides.

This issue is grey its not black or white and i too can see both sides but what does that have to do with the OP lol

a comparison site for DJ Associations ..it may need updating with the news from the NADJ recent agm

I personally wouldn't use that site for a comparison and will be staying with DJ@ this September but may look to be affiliate member of other associations or alliances.

is there a specific pub dj association /alliance /club anyone knows of?

I don't know of anything specifically for Pub DJs but would say AMPDJ would be the one to join. You are treated the same regardless of if you are a Pub DJ going out for £100 or a top end function DJ going out for £500, you get the same insurance, the same enquiries, the same support and the same benefits and I am sure that once the local meet-ups get going you will be welcomed at socials on an even footing alongside everyone else....Oh and of course it is without doubt the best value for money.

Right then Paul & Sandy you can send my cheque made payable to...

Its on its way darling!